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Talk:Terraforming

Farred — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 05:57:38 GMT

How much must be added to the atmosphere for terraforming?

New page

== How much must be added to the atmosphere for terraforming? ==
We can figure out the mass of the atmosphere on Earth and from that estimate what is lacking on Mars. Atmospheric pressure results from the weight of the atmosphere between the planetary surface and outer space. Over every square inch of Earth's surface at sea level there is a one square inch column of air reaching to outer space that weighs 14.7 pounds. 99.9% of the atmosphere is below the altitude of 34 miles. At that height there are only about 0.9% more square inches than there are at the surface. So we can estimate the mass of Earth's atmosphere as 14.7 pounds times the number of square inches of Earth's surface. That overestimates the mass by neglecting the fact that there is no air in the space taken up by mountains. That overestimation is the figure we want for estimating the mass of gas needed to be added to Mars' atmosphere. The radius of Earth is 3.96 E 3 (3960) miles. So the area equals 1.969 E 8 (19690000) square miles or 7.906 E 17 square inches. So the atmosphere of Earth weighs 1.16 E 19 pounds or 5.28 E 18 kilograms. To get the amount of gas needed to have an atmospheric pressure on Mars equal to Earth sea-level pressure we multiply by the ratio of Mars' area to Earth's area by the ratio of Mars' gravity to Earth's gravity. This underestimates the mass because Mars' atmosphere extends to heights at which the gravity is less than the surface gravity and overestimates the mass because it neglects the lessening of the scale height on Mars by the higher average molecular weight of the gas we will use (carbon dioxide, sulfur hexafluoride and 1,1,1-trichloroethane). We assume that the combined effect of these factors is insignificant. So the mass of atmosphere needed on Mars is 3.89 E 15 metric tons. If we raise the pressure to only one tenth of Earth's sea-level pressure and only one tenth of the atmosphere is to be added manufactured gasses, then these gasses would mass 3.89 E 13 metric tons. Spreading the manufacture of the gas over 1000 years we get 3.80 E 10 metric tons per year or 4.44 E 6 tons per hour. The Edmund Fitzgerald carried 26,000 tons. So, what would be needed would be 170 Edmund Fitzgerald cargo mass equivalents per hour for a thousand years. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 05:57, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Terraforming

Farred — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 15:45:16 GMT

Methods:

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	==Methods==		==Methods==
	A life supporting atmosphere needs to contain a "buffer gas", such as nitrogen. Mars is currently lacking in nitrogen, but nitrogen could be sourced from Venus, Saturn's moon Titan, or from comets.		A life supporting atmosphere needs to contain a "buffer gas", such as nitrogen. Mars is currently lacking in nitrogen, but nitrogen could be sourced from Venus, Saturn's moon Titan, or from comets.
-	Mars could be warmed up using greenhouse gases such as perflurocarbons, which are stable in the atmosphere for long periods of time. Mirrors could be placed in orbit to increase the amount of insulation Mars receives.	+	Mars could be warmed up using greenhouse gases such as perflurocarbons, which are stable in the atmosphere for long periods of time. Mirrors could be placed in orbit to increase the amount of insulation Mars receives.
		+
		+	Other greenhouse gasses include sulfur hexafluoride and 1,1,1-Trichloro ethane. These are very stable and highly effective greenhouse gasses. Use of such gasses to warm the atmosphere would allow the Carbon dioxide frozen into the polar caps and some of the water to evaporate adding to the mass of the atmosphere. If one tenth of the atmosphere comes from manufactured dense greenhouse gasses and nine tenths from gasses released by warming and the atmospheric pressure is brought up to one tenth of a Earth sea-level pressure, then a mass of manufactured greenhouse gasses equal to about one-hundred-seventy times the cargo capacity of the Edmund Fitzgerald every hour for a thousand years would be required for the project.

	==Pioneer Organisms==		==Pioneer Organisms==

Sojourner

76.28.73.117 — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 03:51:14 GMT

Mission Objectives:

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	== Mission Objectives ==		== Mission Objectives ==
-	Sojourner had 15 mission objectives divided into three groups: Technology ~~Experaments~~ - which tested the performance of the rover itself, Rover Science ~~Experaments~~ - which included Imaging and use of the Alpha Proton X-ray Spectrometer (APXS) to study the surface composition, and Mission ~~Experaments~~ - which studied the effects of landing and the environment on the [[Mars Pathfinder]] lander. <ref>http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/MPF/rover/mission.html</ref>	+	Sojourner had 15 mission objectives divided into three groups: Technology Experiments - which tested the performance of the rover itself, Rover Science Experiments - which included Imaging and use of the Alpha Proton X-ray Spectrometer (APXS) to study the surface composition, and Mission Experiments - which studied the effects of landing and the environment on the [[Mars Pathfinder]] lander. <ref>http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/MPF/rover/mission.html</ref>

	== References ==		== References ==

Talk:Climbing

Farred — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 15:08:21 GMT

Relevance of Article: talk

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	:If as written it's not the best article on climbing opportunities on Mars, it's at least a start on a better article, and the topic is relevant. I've run it through translate.google.com and given it a couple of appropriate maintenance tags. We probably need one on disputed accuracy here... Note that all untranslated words as of my edit are German -- [[User:Strangelv\|Strangelv]] 05:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)		:If as written it's not the best article on climbing opportunities on Mars, it's at least a start on a better article, and the topic is relevant. I've run it through translate.google.com and given it a couple of appropriate maintenance tags. We probably need one on disputed accuracy here... Note that all untranslated words as of my edit are German -- [[User:Strangelv\|Strangelv]] 05:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
		+	::That seems to be progress. --[[User:Farred\|Farred]] 15:08, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Climbing

Strangelv — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 05:46:28 GMT

Relevance of Article

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	== Relevance of Article ==		== Relevance of Article ==
	This article has only a slim claim to relevance in that there is a mere mention of steep rock faces existing in Valles Marineris. It is mostly about rock climbing and mountain climbing on Earth. This article could be deleted. --[[User:Farred\|Farred]] 14:55, 1 September 2010 (UTC)		This article has only a slim claim to relevance in that there is a mere mention of steep rock faces existing in Valles Marineris. It is mostly about rock climbing and mountain climbing on Earth. This article could be deleted. --[[User:Farred\|Farred]] 14:55, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
		+
		+	:If as written it's not the best article on climbing opportunities on Mars, it's at least a start on a better article, and the topic is relevant. I've run it through translate.google.com and given it a couple of appropriate maintenance tags. We probably need one on disputed accuracy here... Note that all untranslated words as of my edit are German -- [[User:Strangelv\|Strangelv]] 05:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Cliffside

Strangelv — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 05:42:07 GMT

moved [[Talk:Cliffside]] to [[Talk:Climbing]]

New page

Cliffside

Strangelv — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 05:42:06 GMT

moved [[Cliffside]] to [[Climbing]]

New page

Cliffside

Strangelv — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 05:39:26 GMT

applying a crude automated translation; tagging; categorization

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-	Als Felswand wird eine sehr steile, durchgehend felsige Bergflanke bezeichnet. Ihr Neigungswinkel liegt zwischen 65° und 90°, kann aber auch überhängend (größer als 90°) sein. Die mächtigsten Felswände der Alpen erstrecken sich vertikal über 500 bis 1000 Meter, im Himalaya und den Anden auch mehr.	+	{{Wikify}}

-	~~Benediktenwand (Bayern, 1800 m)~~	+	{{Cleanup}}

-	~~Dachstein-Südwände (v~~. ~~l. Torstein~~, ~~Mitterspitz, Hoher Dachstein~~)	+	As a very steep rock face, through rocky mountain slope is called. My inclination is between 65 ° and 90 °, but can also be overhanging (greater than 90 °). The mightiest walls of the Alps extend vertically over 500-1000 meters in the Himalayas and the Andes more.

-	~~Lhotse-Südwand~~ (~~Himalaya~~) ~~vom Chukhung Ri~~	+	Benediktenwand (Bavaria, 1800 m)

-	~~Berühmte Steilwände der Alpen sind unter anderem die Eiger-Nordwand~~ (~~Schweiz)~~, ~~die~~ Dachstein~~-Südwände (Österreich~~) und die Ostwand der Rosengartenspitze (Südtirol). Am Fuß größerer Felswände lagern sich meist große Mengen von Gesteinsschutt ab (in Form von Schutthalden und auch Blockgletschern), der durch laufende Erosion und vereinzelte Bergstürze entsteht.	+	Dachstein south walls (lr Torstein, Mitter pointed, High Dachstein)

-	Markante Felswände erhalten oft einen Eigennamen nach ihren Eigenschaften. Häufig vertretene Namen sind z. B. „Lange Wand“ oder „Hohe Wand“, bzw. nach der Gesteinsfarbe „Weiße Wand“ oder „Rotwand“.	+	Lhotse south face (Himalaya) from Chukhung Ri

-	~~Auch der Planet Mars weist zahlreiche steile Felswände auf~~, ~~unter anderem im Bereich des großen Canyons Valles Marineris~~.	+	Famous cliffs of the Alps including the Eiger North Face (Switzerland), the Dachstein south walls (Austria) and the east wall of the rose garden tip (South Tyrol). At the base of larger rock faces are deposited mostly large quantities of rock debris from (in the form of talus slopes and rock glaciers) caused by ongoing erosion, and isolated landslides.

-	~~Die Entstehung von Felswänden ist nicht auf harte Gesteine wie Granit~~, ~~Gneis oder Dolomit beschränkt~~, sondern kann auch bei Schiefer und sogar Sandstein auftreten (siehe zum Beispiel Hohe Tauern und Elbsandsteingebirge). Ihre Struktur hängt entscheidend von der Umlagerung der Gesteinsschichten im Zuge der Gebirgsbildung ab, ~~ihre Haltbarkeit unter anderem von den im gewachsenen Fels auftretenden Klüften. Auch manche Löss-Terrassen von Weinbauregionen weisen bis zu zehn Meter hohe senkrechte Wände auf~~.	+	Striking rock walls are often a proper name for their properties. Common names are represented, for example, "Long Wall" or "high wall", and after the rock color "white wall" or "Croda Rossa.

-	~~Steile~~, ~~teilweise überhängende Felsabstürze finden sich ferner~~ in ~~alpinen Schluchten und Klammen~~, ~~die durch die Erosion des Wassers~~ in ~~tektonisch vorgeprägten Lineamenten entstehen~~. ~~Verschiedene kleinere Felswände dienen als Übungsobjekt für Kletterer und werden als Klettergärten bezeichnet~~.	+	Also, the planet Mars has many steep cliffs, including in the area of the large canyon Valles Marineris.
		+
		+	The emergence of rock faces is not limited to hard rocks such as granite, gneiss or dolomite, but may also occur in shale and sandstone even (see, for example, Hohe Tauern and Elbsandsteingebirge). Their structure depends crucially on the rearrangement of the rock layers in the course from the mountain-building, their durability, among others, the fissures in the bedrock occurring. Even some loess terraces of wine regions show up to to ten meters high vertical walls.
		+
		+	Steep, overhanging rock falls partly also found in alpine canyons and gorges that result from the erosion of the water in tectonically preconceived lineaments. Several small rocks serve as a practice object for climbers and are known as rock climbing.
		+
		+	[[Category:Recreation]]

List of Recreation

Strangelv — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 05:36:05 GMT

starting list with recently created article

New page

{{Bootstrap}}

*[[Climbing]]

Economic Systems and their Relation to a Mars Colony

Farred — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 15:46:40 GMT

adding see also section

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	For a Mars colony in its initial form a command economy is likely. Most people would not be able to pay for their own transportation to Mars and ability to pay for transportation would be a poor criterion by which to select colonists. When colonization is possible, the colonists are likely to be selected for youth, good health, cooperative attitude, dedication, ability to fill more than one economic niche in the colony and a good evaluation report in years of training. Shipping colonists to Mars will be expensive. Earth will want to pick the best we can get. The goal is a colony that survives. Colonists will be picked to serve that goal. Provision of necessities is likely to be by a command economy on Mars for the same reason as it is in an army at war. After some time money should come into use if it only starts as trading ration coupons or if there is a planned introduction of retail sales. Money is so useful that it is employed in every nation on Earth, so it is likely to be used on Mars. Money is particularly useful when the economic choices to be made become more complicated than a command economy can efficiently handle.		For a Mars colony in its initial form a command economy is likely. Most people would not be able to pay for their own transportation to Mars and ability to pay for transportation would be a poor criterion by which to select colonists. When colonization is possible, the colonists are likely to be selected for youth, good health, cooperative attitude, dedication, ability to fill more than one economic niche in the colony and a good evaluation report in years of training. Shipping colonists to Mars will be expensive. Earth will want to pick the best we can get. The goal is a colony that survives. Colonists will be picked to serve that goal. Provision of necessities is likely to be by a command economy on Mars for the same reason as it is in an army at war. After some time money should come into use if it only starts as trading ration coupons or if there is a planned introduction of retail sales. Money is so useful that it is employed in every nation on Earth, so it is likely to be used on Mars. Money is particularly useful when the economic choices to be made become more complicated than a command economy can efficiently handle.
		+
		+	== See also ==
		+	*[[Another Contin(g)ent Concept]]
		+	*[[Talk:Another Contin(g)ent Concept]]
		+
	[[Category:Settlements]]		[[Category:Settlements]]

Another Contin(g)ent Concept

Farred — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 15:41:42 GMT

adding see also section

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	Uniqueness and specificity of the above-stated problems put in number paramount a problem of creation of the international distributed technological environment of underground basing IPS’ designing. In this plan it is necessary to recognize that the dominating traditions which have settled in the world of designing are based on a paradigm of the private corporate intellectual right with all following costs of a competition and patenting, concealment of perspective workings out, etc. defects of a monetary society.		Uniqueness and specificity of the above-stated problems put in number paramount a problem of creation of the international distributed technological environment of underground basing IPS’ designing. In this plan it is necessary to recognize that the dominating traditions which have settled in the world of designing are based on a paradigm of the private corporate intellectual right with all following costs of a competition and patenting, concealment of perspective workings out, etc. defects of a monetary society.

-	= References =	+	== See also ==
		+	[[Economic Systems and their Relation to a Mars Colony]]
		+
		+	== References ==
	<references/>		<references/>

Talk:Cliffside

Farred — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 14:55:37 GMT

relavance of article

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	== Language for contributions ==		== Language for contributions ==
	Schreiben Sie auf English, bitte. That is my best attempt at German. Please write contributions in English. --[[User:Farred\|Farred]] 03:40, 1 September 2010 (UTC)		Schreiben Sie auf English, bitte. That is my best attempt at German. Please write contributions in English. --[[User:Farred\|Farred]] 03:40, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Relevance of Article ==
		+	This article has only a slim claim to relevance in that there is a mere mention of steep rock faces existing in Valles Marineris. It is mostly about rock climbing and mountain climbing on Earth. This article could be deleted. --[[User:Farred\|Farred]] 14:55, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

User talk:76.114.114.75

Farred — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 03:42:48 GMT

Language for contributions

New page

== Language for contributions ==
Schreiben Sie auf English, bitte. That is my best attempt at German. Please write contributions in English. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 03:42, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Cliffside

Farred — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 03:40:01 GMT

Language for contributions

New page

== Language for contributions ==
Schreiben Sie auf English, bitte. That is my best attempt at German. Please write contributions in English. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 03:40, 1 September 2010 (UTC)